James John Berkley: On Indian Railways

Note: This is a sub-section of James John Berkley

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1860 On Indian Railways: With a Description of the Great Indian Peninsula Railway

Mr. GEORGE BERKLEY as, the representative of the Author of the Paper, and as officially connected with the Great Indian Peninsula Railway Company, stated, that when he received the Paper from his Brother, now in India, it was accompanied with a request, that he would make any additions to it which he thought desirable. He believed he had exercised a wise discretion in submitting the Paper to the Institution, almost exactly as it was written by the Author; because it was complete in itself, and the Author, who had borne the brunt of the work in India, and upon whom the chief responsibility rested, should have, therefore, all the credit that attached to it.

He had also been requested to illustrate the Paper, and he had done so by maps and tables, to which he would briefly allude, because, in addition to the Paper itself, which dealt chiefly with the works of the Great Indian Peninsula Railway, they referred, generally, to the system of railways which had been sanctioned by Government, and were under construction in India. In the absence of Mr. Rendel, the Consulting Engineer of the East Indian Railway, he would give some particulars respecting that line, which extended from Calcutta to Delhi, with a long branch to Jubbulpore and three shorter branches to Raneegunge, the Barrackur river, and the Singarrow valley.

The length of the line was 1,338 miles, and the length already opened for public traffic, 295 miles. On the East Indian Railway, although it was of so great a length, there was only one tunnel, 300 yards in length. The principal works consisted of viaducts. In the crossings of the Rivers Soane and Jumna and two others, the railway was carried at the top, with a roadway underneath for the ordinary traffic, in a somewhat similar way to the High-Level Bridge at Newcastle. These four bridges were constructed upon the wrought-iron lattice principle, and were extensive works. The bridge over the Some consisted of twenty-eight openings, with a span of 150 feet; that over the Jumna of fifteen openings, of which the span was 205 feet. The bridge over the Adjai consisted of thirty-two openings, with a span of 50 feet; that over the Keeul, of nine openings, with a span of 150 feet; and that over the Tonse, of seven openings, with a span of 150 feet.

In the prosecution of this railway, a coal field of considerable extent had already been tapped; the coal was used as fuel for the locomotive engines, and was carried in large quantities along the line. This was the first instance, in India, of the development by railways of that most valuable mineral, coal.

The estimated capital of the East Indian Railway was £19,000,000, rather more than £14,000 per mile. The cost of the finished portions of the line had been £12,500 per mile: there was, therefore, every probability, that the whole of the works would be carried out within the estimates. The cost of these railway works had been largely increased by the recent mutiny, to the extent, it was estimated, of not less than £3,000,000.

The following were the rates of wages per day, both before and after the mutiny:-foremen carpenters, from 9d. to 13 1/2d.; ordinary carpenters, from 6d. to 7d.; blacksmiths' foremen, from 9d. to 13 1/2d; ordinary blacksmiths, from 5d. to 7d.; masons, from 4d. to 7 1/2d.; coolies, from 1 1/2d. to 2 1/2d. He hoped on a future occasion, that the Institution would be favoured with a Paper descriptive of the works on the East Indian Railway.

The Author had given so full a description of the Great Indian Peninsula Railway, that it was unnecessary to do more than call attention to the following points: that the total length of the line was 1,266 miles, of which 246 were already opened; that the estimated cost was about £10,000 per mile; and that the portion already opened, had been constructed at an average cost of £3,758 per mile, so that there was every reason to believe, that the estimate would not be exceeded.

The materials sent from this country for the use of Indian railways, were similar to those employed on English lines. The engines had cylinders 15 inches in diameter, with a stroke of 22 inches, and our coupled wheels, each 5 feet B inches in diameter. Those intended for use upon the inclines were tank engines, having cylinders 15 inches in diameter, with a stroke of 2 feet, and four wheels, each 4 feet in diameter, with skid breaks which did not pass under the wheels, but were pressed upon the rails between the wheels, on each side of the engine. The specimens of permanent way materials which he had brought for the inspection of the Meeting, showed, that they were the best that this country could, at any reasonable price, afford. It was of great importance, where the freight was so heavy an item, and the question of renewal was also so serious, to have the best quality of materials.

It might be interesting to learn how largely wages had increased in Bombay. Comparing a report from an inspector in that Presidency, of the rates of wages in 1853, with those in 1859, given in the Paper, he found, that the increase of wages in Bombay had been larger than in Bengal, and he believed, than in the other Presidency also. The wages of masons had risen, from 9d. to 1s. 6d.; of carpenters, from 9d. to le. 6d.; of miners from 7 1/2d. to 9d.; and of bigaries, or labourers, from 4 1/2d. to 6d. It must not be inferred, that the cost of the works had risen in the same proportion; because, as the workmen became accustomed to the use of mechanical appliances, they earned more money than before, they were better fed and protected, and their work, consequently, became more valuable. He considered a material element of prosperity to have arisen from the introduction of these large works into India; for it was an undoubted gain to a country, when the amount of labour an individual workman could perform, was largely increased, or doubled.

With reference to the salaries and wages paid to persons who went onto India from this country, he might state, that there were three classes of Resident Engineers. The first class, - he did not mean those who had the chief superintendence, but those to whom districts were assigned, - received £780 per annum: the second class, £660: and the third class, £540. The salary of the Locomotive Superintendent, was £1,080. The foremen of the several mechanical departments were paid various rates, from £20 to £35 a month. Engine fitters, engine drivers, coppersmiths, general smiths and coachmakers, received £16, £18, and £20 per month, respectively, for three years: permanent-way inspectors had £14 per month, with no addition during the three-years’ engagement. He did not know whether that circumstance influenced the supply, but this was the most difficult class to procure. He believed, that it was desirable, in order to induce persons to go out from this country, that they should have the stimulus of an annual increase in their salary; unless they had that prospect before them, they were not tempted to leave England.

It was satisfactory to be able to state, that with but few exceptions, the whole of the engineering staff of the Great Indian Peninsula Company had saved money. Living was very cheap in India. One engine driver who went out as a fireman, at £9 per month, and who, six months afterwards, was raised to the position of engine driver, at £16 per month, in addition to liberal allowances under special circumstances, had saved, during the sixteen months he had been engaged, £100. This driver stated that he had everything necessary for a working man, and lived luxuriously for £3 per month; his definition of luxury being curries and beer. He hoped these statements would induce able men to go out to India, to aid in the development of the valuable system of railways in that country.

The Madras Railway started from Madras to join the Great Indian Peninsula at the River Kristna, thereby connecting Bombay and Madras: it also connected Madras and Beypore. It was unnecessary to enter into any particulars respecting it, as he saw present, not only the Consulting Engineer, but also the late Chief Resident Engineer of the line, who had done himself great credit in the management of that undertaking. The Madras Railway as well as the Bombay and Baroda Railway, and the Great Southern of India, were in course of construction, without the intervention of contractors. It would be interesting to hear the reasons, which had induced the able and experienced Engineers of those railways to adopt that course.

From the Paper it appeared, that very good practical results had been derived from the introduction of the contract system on the Great Indian Peninsula Railway. He need not dwell for more than a moment, upon the importance and value of subdivision of labour, as practised in the manufactures of this country, where the principle was universally adopted, in the most minute, as well as in the greatest works. One of the most striking examples of this, was afforded by the introduction of the contract system in railways: the Engineers designed, estimated, and superintended the works, whilst men whose practical knowledge fitted them for the task, undertook the organisation of labour, the purchase of materials, and the actual execution of the works. That the system had been productive of great good in this country, was not doubted; it would, therefore, be interesting to learn why it had not been applied in those parts of India, where the railways he had named, were in course of construction.

The Scinde Railway, although it consisted of three companies, - the Scinde Railway Company, the Indus Steam Company, and the Punjab Railway Company, - was, in point of fact, but one system. There was also a line under survey, from Lahore to Delhi which was not indicated on the map, (Plate 7), as the route was not yet determined. He hoped, that in the course of the discussion, some information would be elicited, with regard to the difficulties that had been experienced in the navigation of the Indus, and the manner in which it was proposed to surmount them.

It would also be highly interesting to have some information respecting the bridges on the Bombay and Baroda Line, which were made entirely of iron, somewhat similar to the celebrated bridge in Wales, and consisted of spans of 60 feet, which he understood were duplicates.

The Eastern Railway of Bengal, and the Calcutta and South Eastern Railway, were also works of interest. In connection with the latter, he believed dry docks were to be constructed. The average cost of railways in England, up to the end of 1858, was about £38,700 per mile; in Scotland, about £27,500 per mile; and in Ireland, about £15,000 per mile; making an average of £34,243 per mile, That amount applied to 9,323 miles, of which about 3,100 miles were single lines.

On the Indian railways it was proposed, in the first instance, to lay down single lines of permanent way, except on such portions as those between Bombay and Callian, and the two Ghaut Inclines, where double lines would be laid. Their estimated cost was from £16,000 to £14,000 per mile, giving an average of £11,000 per mile, and there was every reason to hope, this would be found sufficient for their construction, as whilst the East Indian Railway was estimated at £14,480 per mile, the part now constructed had only cost between £12,000 and £13,000 per mile; of the Great Indian Peninsula Railway, which was estimated at £10,000 per mile, the parts completed had cost less than £9,000 per mile; and of the Madras Railway, which was estimated at about £8,500 per mile, the part constructed had only cost about £7,000 per mile. But it would be unjust not to mention, that in India there were no charges for Parliamentary expenses and land, whilst in England, there was high authority for estimating them at 25 per cent. of the total cost of railways. There were also many other important matters, such as the permanent and extensive character of the station accommodation on English railways, which should be taken into consideration, if it were desired to institute any comparison between the two systems of railway.

It appeared from the Paper, that as many as one hundred thousand men had been employed upon the Great Indian Peninsula Railway, the average number being about forty thousand. Looking at the length of that line and comparing it with the whole system, the conclusion would be arrived at, that within the last four, or five years, there had been a minimum of one hundred thousand, and a maximum of three hundred thousand, or four hundred thousand persons employed upon railway works in India.

Within the same period of time, about £14,000,000 had been expended in labour, the effect of which had been to raise the rate of wages, and to increase the capacity of the men employed. Experience proved, that no native prejudices, or other circumstances would interfere to prevent railways from being used for the benefit of India, and that they would be extensively employed for the conveyance of goods, as the best and cheapest modes of transit.

But the beneficial effects of the introduction of railways into India, had not been limited to the people and trade of that country. It was true, that England had found the greater part of the capital for these undertakings, but her manufactures at home had been very largely benefited by them. Within the last four, or five years, 700,000 tons of railway material had been sent from this country to India, independently of contractors' materials. Those 700,000 tons of material had cost about £10,500,000. In 1859, 208,000 tons, chiefly of iron, were shipped for India, which was equal to about one-sixth of the whole exports of the country, during the previous year.

He had spoken of the number of persons temporarily employed in the construction of these railways; he would now notice the number that would, probably, be permanently employed, and here the comparison with England was one of some interest. In England, in 1858, there were employed upon 9,323 miles of railway, 109,328 persons or an average of 11.7 men per mile. In India, in 1859, there were 590 Englishmen and 7,855 natives employed on 586 miles of line, giving 1 Englishman and 13.5 natives, or 14.5 men per mile. When all the lines at present sanctioned were completed, viz., 4,821 miles, there would be about 70,000 people permanently employed upon the Indian railways.

The question of fares for passenger traffic was one of some interest: upon this subject he would confine himself to the Bombay Presidency. On the Great Indian Peninsula Railway, the fares were, per mile, for the first class, 2.25d., or 2 1/4d.; for the second class, .75d., or 3/4d.; and for the third class, .37d., or 3/8d. per mile. In England, Scotland, and Ireland, the fares varied but little: in England they were respectively, for the three classes, 2.16d., 1.48d., and .88d.; in Scotland, 1.70d., 1.51d., and .88d.; in Ireland, 1.82d., 1.36d., and .80d. The speed in the Bombay Presidency was from sixteen miles to twenty miles per hour, including stoppages, while in England it was from twenty miles to the express speed of thirty-eight miles per hour. The mean number of miles open in Bombay in the year 1859, was 195, and in the United Kingdom in 1858, it was 9,323 miles.

The total number of passengers in Bombay was 1,161,501; and in the United Kingdom, 139,193,699. The average distance travelled by each passenger in Bombay, was 32.4 miles, while in England, the average distance travelled was only 12.7 miles. The number of passengers, per mile of railway, was larger in Bombay than in Great Britain and Ireland; in the former, it was 192,974, and in the latter, 189,611. The total number of passengers by railways in India in 1859, was 2,822,382, 93 per cent. being third-class passengers, probably consisting chiefly of the lowest classes of the native population.

On the Great Indian Peninsula Railway, the receipts for passengers amounted to £453 per mile, and for goods, £464 per mile; in Great Britain and Ireland, £1,112 per mile for passengers, and £1,458 per mile for goods. Notwithstanding the very high price of fuel in Bombay, coals being $3. 3s. per ton, the working expenses did not exceed those in England. The dividend earned by the Bombay Line was 85.148. per cent., and by the East Indian Line, more than 7 per cent.; in England, the average dividend was about 4 per cent.

He could not leave this part of the subject without remarking, that the greatest credit was due to those gentlemen who had gone to India, and had devoted their best energies to the development of the traffic and to working it in the cheapest and best way; who had set aside all prejudices and personal feelings; and who, in all cases, had laboured for the good of Her Majesty’s subjects in her Indian dominions.

With regard to the future prospects of these enterprises, he looked again to English experience. The Author of the Paper had remarked, that the necessity for railways in India, was not to be measured by the present extent of the commerce of that country. England afforded a striking illustration of the truth of this statement; for from the time that railways were first introduced and developed in this country, say from 1830 to 1858, the population had increased about 42 per cent., whilst the exports of the principal articles of manufacture had increased from about 200 to 1,000 per cent. The exports of cotton twist, &c., had increased during this period, from about 65,000,000 lbs. to 200,000,000 lbs.; of calicoes, &c., from about 245,000,000 yards to 1,517,000,000 yards; and of iron and hardwares, from about 131,000 tons to 1,349,000 tons. He did not maintain that these results were entirely owing to the construction of railways, but he ventured to assert, that they would never have been obtained without railways, and they led him to hope for similar results from the development of the railway system in India, in opening out the vast resources of that country.

He had now been connected with Indian Railways for ten years, and he was desirous of communicating all the information he could, in the hope, that the attention of Engineers would be directed towards extending and perfecting the railway system in India, and thus promoting the development of the resources and the civilisation of the large native population of that country.

In answer to a remark from the President, - that without a statement of the earnings per train mile in India, there could be no basis for the comparison of the working expenses there and in England, - Mr. Berkley added, that he had not intended to institute a comparison between the working expenses; as although the cost of fuel was large in India, the railways were working with new plant; and although there was some expensive labour, there was also a great deal of cheap labour. He did not consider, that the Circumstances admitted of a direct comparison.

Mr. BRUCE stated the reasons which induced him, in the construction of the Madras Railway, to associate, in his own person, the apparently double functions of Engineer and Contractor, a course so different from that generally adopted in this country. He had never ignored the benefits to be derived from the division of labour, nor did he condemn the employment of contractors; but no general rule, could, or ought to be laid down upon the subject; under certain circumstances, and indeed most frequently, the works must, of necessity, be undertaken by contractors. But in Madras there were no large contractors available; it became, therefore, a question, whether he should begin the works at once, within two months of landing, or whether he should allow a year, or two years, to be consumed in correspondence with the administrative body in England. If he had gone direct from England to Madras, he should not have deviated from the ordinary rule; but having previously had, in Bengal, some experience of the ease with which natives might be organised for railway work, and seeing that contractors in India were, at that time, in no better position than the Engineers, he did not hesitate to begin the works of the Madras Railway on his own responsibility. He did not, for a moment, call in question the propriety of others adopting a different plan; but he had no doubt, that under the circumstances in which he was placed, he had pursued the best course.

Another fact must also be taken into consideration; in carrying out works in India, very little plant was required; it might almost be said, that the less there was, the better. He began, at Madras, without any materials from England, and before it was possible to import any, the natives had found their own tools and earth baskets. As there were no long ‘leads’ from cuttings into embankments, there was no necessity for temporary rails; all that was required were good labourers, to whom a certain length of work was let. The first party engaged, undertook six miles of earthwork, the first out of Madras, at a price rather less than one penny per cubic yard. The other parts of the line were also let, wherever it was possible, to sub-contractors who were paid weekly; and he never had any difficulty, within a reasonable distance of Madras, in getting people to take these contracts. In so doing, he had only followed, after all, the old method, the plan on which Smeaton built the Eddystone Lighthouse, and on which Stephenson constructed the Stockton and Darlington, and the Liverpool and Manchester Railways.

At the same time, he perfectly admitted, that the intervention of contractors was desirable, whenever it was possible to get responsible men to undertake the work at fair prices. By that system, the Engineer relieved himself of a great amount of responsibility and continued anxiety, which sometimes led to fatal consequences.

He added his testimony to what, he was sure, was the sense of the Meeting, that this Paper was a most valuable one, as the Author, in the popular description he had given of the Bombay Railway, had also sketched the general features of all the Indian railways. With most of the points mentioned, he cordially agreed, and with regard to those from which he differed, he acknowledged the fairness and ability with which the Author had stated his case.

There was one topic alluded to, which called for remark; it was stated, that the substantial system had been adopted in contradistinction to what was called the American system. It always appeared to him, that there was a popular delusion in the minds of the public upon that subject. Engineers were repeatedly asked, why the American system was not adopted in the Indian railways, and why so much money was spent upon them. Now the fact was, that what had been incorrectly called the American system, had, in reality, been followed, if by that term was meant the practice of taking advantage of the cheapest and best materials to be found upon the spot. It would be folly to maintain, that because timber was used in America, where it was cheap, it ought also to be employed in India, where it was dear, but where there was abundance of good stone, and bricks. The prices of labour in Bombay were much higher than in Madras. In the latter Presidency, the ordinary prices per day were; -coolies, 3d.; women and boys to assist in carrying the earth, 1 1/2d.; carpenters, from 9d. to 10 1/2d.; bricklayers, 7 1/2d. to 10 1/2d. These rates were about the same as those now paid upon the Great Southern of India Line. The ordinary price of earthwork was 1 1/2d. to 2d. per cubic yard; and of masonry, 7s. 6d. to 10s. per cubic yard; and works, which were usually let to contractors, such as making embankments, building bridges, laying the permanent way, and ballasting the road, cost about £1,500 per mile, exclusive, of course, of materials and stations.

He could confirm, in every respect, the observations in the Paper, that the railway works of India had materially contributed to the improvement of the people. Their whole appearance was changed for the better; there was plenty of money amongst them, and they had now the means of living well. The coolies were daily increasing in size and strength, as also in mechanical ability.

He ought to have mentioned, when speaking of the system he had adopted in Madras, that he never made a written contract. Every arrangement took place by word of mouth, and no money was ever advanced before it was earned. The ordinary practice in India was to pay in advance, one-half, or more, of the value of the article ordered, which was proof of the absence of proper confidence between the employers and employed. He had been warned, by men long acquainted with India, that the system he proposed to adopt, would fail. He found, however, that when the natives were once impressed with the honesty of those who employed them, and of their readiness to fulfil all their engagements, there was not the least difficulty in procuring labour. But his reason for not entering into written contracts, was the possibility, from the well-known mania of the natives for litigation, of his being continually involved in lawsuits.

Allusion had been made to the advantages of the guarantee system. It had been his fate to have been occasionally placed in a rather prominent position of hostility to that system: he was glad, therefore, to take this opportunity of stating, from the experience of some years past, that the manner in which the Government supervision of the works had been exercised, was all that could be desired. The course pursued by Captain Johnson in connection with the lines in Madras, had been in the highest degree satisfactory to those concerned; and he was sure, that all those who had been connected with Indian railways, would not do justice to their own feelings, if they failed to express, on every occasion, their admiration of the extraordinary ability and the high gentlemanly bearing which had always been manifested by Sir James Melville, in the management of that department of the Indian Government in this country.

Mr. LONGRIDGE said the line in India with which he was connected was comparatively so insignificant, that it offered little interest in an engineering point of view. It possessed, however, great commercial interest, the chief object of that line being to relieve the over-crowded and somewhat dangerous port of Calcutta, by the creation of a subsidiary port on the Mutla. The trade of the province of Bengal had increased so rapidly, and the dangers of the navigation of the Hooghly were so much enhanced, partly, perhaps, owing to the increased size of the vessels, that the necessity for a new port had become evident.

When he went to India in 1856, to survey this line, - the Calcutta and South Eastern, from Calcutta to the River Mutla, - he was struck with the capabilities which that river, or rather arm of the sea, presented for the formation of a new port. At low water there was, throughout, a minimum depth of 24 feet, whereas in the Hooghly there were many shoals, with not more than 15 feet of water over them. Those shoals were at such distances from each other, that it was impossible to get, over more than one, or two of them, in a tide. Unlike the Hooghly, the Mutla was free from bores and dangerous eddies; it was kept open by the tidal flow, which did not exceed, at any time, four miles per hour through the channels of the Sunderbunds; and as no fresh water entered it, there had been little, or no change in the depth of water; there was, moreover, no bar. Ships of all burthens would be able to come alongside the intended wharves, and discharge their cargoes, at once, into the railway trucks. The traffic from Calcutta, for about three months in the year, was, at present, brought down the Nuddea Rivers, running nearly due north from Calcutta, but except during the rainy season, those rivers were not navigable; at other times, the whole of the traffic, which, in 1856, amounted to 1,667,000 tons, had, therefore, to be brought round, through the most intricate navigation of the Sunderbunds, to the head of the River Mutla, thence it passed up the Biddiadhurree River and then again through the Circular Canal to Calcutta. The scenes which took place upon that canal, must be seen to be believed. By high water it was, frequently, so crowded with vessels, that when the tide fell, they crushed up together, and the weakest went to the bottom. He had himself occupied from four hours to five hours in getting two miles, in a dingy.

The port on the Mutla was the only one in India capable of receiving the ‘Great Eastern’, it could be moored alongside the wharf at the railway station to discharge both passengers and cargo direct for Calcutta, which was at a distance of 28 1/2 miles. There was no necessity for wet docks; graving docks only would, therefore, be constructed by the Company, who also intended to erect, wharf walls, with hydraulic cranes for discharging cargo. The system of executing the works without the intervention of contractors had been adopted, because the line was short, and the works were, generally, of such a nature as not to require any plant.

There were only two bridges of any importance; one with a span of 170 feet, the other of 125 feet. The foundations were not difficult, and he proposed that the bridges should be formed of iron girders resting on brick abutments. It must not be inferred, that he was systematically opposed to the employment of contractors; on the contrary, he thought it would have been almost impossible to have carried out many large works, without their intervention.

Mr. HAWKSHAW V.P. as the Consulting Engineer of the Madras Railway Company, had seen no occasion to differ from the mode adopted, of carrying on the works by small sub-contracts, and dispensing with the intervention of large contractors. It was unwise to enunciate general rules, as to whether railway works should be executed by large, or small contracts, or be conducted under the immediate control of the Engineer; everything must depend upon the circumstances of each individual case.

In England there existed the means of obtaining fair competition for contracting, from a valuable class of men, educated to the business and possessing a thorough knowledge of the manner in which the work ought to be executed; and he believed, that most Engineers had arrived at the conclusion, that in England, this was the best mode of conducting public works. But it was not always possible to adopt the same plan in a foreign country. There was great difficulty in obtaining proper Competition for contracts in a country like India.

He had under consideration, at the present time, the best mode of carrying out railway works in some of the Colonies, yet with all his experience, he found it an embarrassing question. There were so many difficulties in the way of obtaining offers from a competent number of persons, to perform works of the cost of which the Engineer himself could have no very precise knowledge, that the contractors were tempted to add a considerable sum, to provide against the contingencies which might arise. He had also the honour to be the Consulting Engineer of the Eastern Bengal Railway, which was carried on upon the contract system; thus having railways in India under construction on both systems, he should, in a few years, be able to give a sounder opinion as to their relative superiority. But with his present experience, he approved the course which had been pursued, in commencing the Madras railway, and judging merely by the cost of that line, experience had pronounced in its favour.

The question had been mooted, whether Indian railways ought to be constructed substantially, or on the principle which was adopted, some years ago, in America. It was his decided opinion, that as a rule, temporary works were proper for temporary purposes only; but that, occasionally, from want of funds, it might become necessary to adopt temporary structures for permanent objects.

In an old country like India, where there was an immense population, a large amount of traffic, and the prospect of a fair return upon the outlay, the best materials only should be employed. It was as bad policy in India, as it was in England, to use inferior sleepers, or bad rails; because those portions of a railway wore out sooner than the rest. The same remark applied to bridges and other similar works; yet, in some cases, where the timber could be depended upon to last fourteen, or fifteen years, it might, with propriety, be employed for viaducts, provided that by using timber, the structure could be erected for about one-half the cost of iron, or stone, which would permit of its being rebuilt at the expiration of that time; but if the timber was liable to decay in five, or six years, that course would be inapplicable.

He thought that, at present, there were no fair grounds for comparison between the cost of railways in India and in England. His own experience proved, that the cost of many of the English railways had been nearly doubled, during the last fifteen years. No useful conclusions could, therefore, be drawn, from a comparison between the cost of a new line of railway and that of an old one. On the lines with which he was connected, almost all the stations had quadrupled in size and cost, during the period they had been under his charge. It would be the same, hereafter, in India; the rolling stock also would become more extensive as the traffic increased; and thus the ultimate cost, per mile, would be proportionately augmented. It must not be forgotten, when instituting comparisons of this kind, that there was not a single old railway that had not cost much more per mile, than when it was first opened.

He could not refrain, in conclusion, from expressing the great pleasure which this Paper had afforded him. It was a clear and lucid statement of what had taken place under the Author’s own observation, and he felt, that the Institution was much indebted to him, for having favoured them with this communication.

Mr. BIDDER - President, - said, that the great experience of the Author in Indian railway work, had enabled him to present to the Institution one of the most instructive Papers that had ever been laid before it. For his own part, he regarded it as a perfect model for such communications; he had never listened to a Paper with more pleasure and interest, or to one from which he had derived more information.

It was a subject for congratulation, that the results of the noncontract system had been so satisfactory on the Madras Line. Those who invested their money in Indian railways merely looked for interest on their capital, and although great supervision had been exercised over the expenditure by the Government, there was no personal interest to insure economy. Contractors might be said to be both bold and timid; bold, when the work was fairly understood, but timid, when there were contingencies in the background. In introducing a new class of labour into a new country, It was necessary, that the Engineer should pioneer the way, so as to ascertain the elements on which contractors might, subsequently, found their estimates; fair competition might then be relied on, and the contract system could be introduced with advantage.

The remarks which had been made relative to the increased cost of railways in this country, had demonstrated, that no useful result could be drawn from a comparison of the cost of lines in England and in India.

But there was one point of comparison which led to inferences of a useful character, that of the fares, and the average distance travelled by each passenger. The third-class fares in India seemed to be only about one-half as much as in England, whilst the average distances travelled by each passenger were, respectively, 32 miles and 12 miles. If the distance each passenger was conveyed in England could be increased, either larger dividends would be realised, or lower fares could be charged. It was well known, that the most intricate complications had arisen, from the contests of railway companies with regard to long fares; whereas it appeared to him, that the real prosperity of a railway was more dependent upon its local traffic, and that, in general, railway companies should endeavour to facilitate the construction of lines in the districts they traversed, so as to lead, ultimately, to an increase in the accommodation of the immediate population and in the conveyance of traffic.

Another subject had been incidentally alluded to, to which he more particularly referred, in the hope that Mr. Longridge would be prevailed upon to present a Paper to the Institution, embodying the results of his experience as to the local circumstances connected with the navigation of the Hooghly and the Mutla. The Hooghly received a very large amount of inland water, and was uncertain and changing in its depth, whilst the Mutla was kept open by the tidal water only, and preserved a uniform and invariable depth. There was no subject of greater national importance than that which concerned the regime of navigable rivers, and the effects of scour and tidal waters upon their channels; and a discussion upon that subject, independent of technical points, could not fail to be interesting and useful to the profession.

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